Saturday, February 20, 2010

Donald Douglas - An Ethical "Push-me, Pull-you"


Professor Douglas paints a very odd and contradictory picture with his recent Jeff Goldstein Knows a Thing or Two About Low-Life Leftist Scum post.

The story is thus, according to the opinion piece from FoxNews.com, to which Donald links:
Right-wing blogger Jeff Goldstein maintains a well-respected site entitled Protein Wisdom. Left-wing Deborah Frisch maintains the south(west)paw blog. She prides herself on attacking 'right-wing nuts' -- or 'wingnuts' in blogspeak -- by posting insults on their websites. (Left-wingers are referred to as 'moonbats'.)

An exchange on Protein Wisdom between Goldstein and Frisch turned so nasty that it landed in the mainstream media. On July 12, Brit Hume of FOX News reported, "Deborah Frisch escalated a foreign policy argument with blogger Jeff Goldstein last week, writing that if 'someone shot you and your 'tyke' it wouldn't slow me down one iota.' She also wrote that she hopes 'no one Jon-Benets' the child -- a reference to the brutal murder of a young Colorado girl ten years ago -- and made disturbing sexual remarks about the boy."
...
On July 8, the columnist Michelle Malkin reposted some of Frisch's comments on her own blog. Other conservative sites linked to Malkin and the matter snowballed.

Malkin also nominated Frisch as "Unhinged Academic of the Year." That's because Frisch is an adjunct professor of psychology at the University of Arizona. Or, rather, she was. In backlash against her gleeful and graphic speculation about sexual contact with a 2-year-old, emails poured into the University. On July 8, Frisch 'resigned' her $32,861-a-year part-time position.


Phoenix Democrat, a blogger at Daily Kos (to whom Donald also links, but misidentifies as Markos, himself--which is pretty typical... All liberals look alike to Donald, and this isn't the first time that he's maligned the wrong one--in fact his usual MO is to just tar everyone who ever read or commented there, from Markos on down, for the "evil" words of whatever Kos blogger he's on about) continues the story:
Yet, after her apologizes, the attacks against her by anonymous conservative cowards intensified. These trolls, who are no better than white supremacists who engage in these same kinds of tactics, have flooded Debroah Frisch's blog and her former employer with online posts and E-mails that were vile and threatening.

Here are some excerpts courtesy of the (Tucson) Arizona Daily Star:

"Deborah Frisch's comments on the Web site (name of Web site deleted) created such a furor she has been lambasted on countless conservative Web sites. Her boss at the University of Arizona also received irate E-mails calling for her termination, she said.

"Alfred Kaszniak, head of the psychology department, said he has received close to 300 E-mails about the incident. 'The majority were very angry and many of them were using similar kinds of language that she is alleged to have used, accusing myself and the university of all sorts of things,' he said.

"Frisch, 44, said she quit her $32,861-a-year part time position not only because she fears for her safety, but because she regrets the UA ended up in the middle of what was intended to be a 'sick joke.'

"She had hoped by quitting her job, supporters of blogger Jeff Goldstein would stop their online attacks. If anything, she said, they've increased.

"'These people think I should be incarcerated, that I'm mentally ill or that I should be shot,' Frisch said during a telephone interview from Eugene, Oregon, where she is living now. 'This whole thing has been crazy to me. People have spent their whole weekend on this.'"


So who's the aggressor here? Yes, we can all denounce what Deborah Frisch said and did and not condone her comments. However, this incident brings to mind an incident here in Arizona when the son of the Democratic Senate candidate was arrested months ago for drugs. Shortly after that arrest, a conservative Republican State Senator, Jack Harper, lashed out not only at the Senate candidate but also at his entire family by saying on the Senate floor that there was a "culture of corruption" in that family.

So is it O.K. for conservative Republicans to attack another person's family and not the other way around?

Anyone who doesn't see the irony here--including Dr. Douglas--must be blind.

In the Frisch case we have a leftwing blogger and college professor who makes disgusting comments on a rightwing blog, and wingnuts respond by outing her up-to-then pseudononymous identity and contact her place of employment, to the tune of about 300 e-mails to her department head alone.
Outrage from Professor Donald Douglas? Zero. In point of fact, he seems to be on the opposing side, justifying what his rightwing brethren did.

In the Douglas case, we have a rightwing blogger and college professor who makes disgusting comments at a post at a leftwing blog, and when a few leftwingers respond in pretty much the same way as the rightwing bloggers above, Donald goes absolutely apeshit.

If it's wrong to hit a blogger personally or professionally for what they say on their blog--and as I've said, I believe it is--than it's wrong, no matter whose ox is being gored...

What Frisch said was absolutely reprehensible--and if anyone's wondering whether I believe what she said is worse than what he said, I do--but I don't think that that game of moral relativism is appropriate, here. Neither Professor Frisch's disgusting comment or Dr. Donald Douglas' disgusting comment warrant attacking them at their places of employment. Neither one.

For Donald to applaud one and howl like a stuck polecat about the other is just another in his long line of hypocritical "yes for me, but not for thee" mixed messages. Either it's wrong or it isn't, and Donald Douglas would do well to stop talking out of both sides of his mouth & decide what he actually stands for.

16 comments:

Capt. Fogg said...

It's probably a shame that none of his readers will ever see what I actually wrote to the Donald, nut only the patched together redaction wrapped around a bundle of straw with a target painted on it. He and his cohorts who scream about censorship all use comment moderation and nothing I've written to them, no matter how rational or sincere an attempt at communication ever see the light of day until it's been gutted, skinned and had horns grafted on to the carcass.

So whatever as they say in his part of the country. living well is the best revenge and being well armed doesn't hurt either. I'm very, very good at both.

Donald Douglas said...

Capt. Fogg: You're the biggest liar I've seen in a very long time. I seriously could not live with myself if I routinely spit out the most vicious lies and slanders on the scale that you do. It's completely reprehensible, and you should be ashamed, and if libel laws were tougher you've have a bit of that coming as well, you sucking tentacle of death.

You write: "Nothing I've ever written them ..." has seen the light of day.

Say what? I published your comment at my blog, you asshole, here. And then I wrote an entire post in rebuttal, here.

You are nothing but an evil stump of a man, a miniscule little prick, and your lies right here prove it.

And you Comrade Repsac3, your posts are despicable smears and distortions. How can you possible compare anything I've ever written to Deborah Frisch, who attacked Jeff Goldstein in classic leftist death wish style: "You live in Colorado, I see. Hope no one JonBenets your baby" ... "I reiterate: If some nutcase kidnapped your child tomorrow and did to him what was done to your fellow Coloradan, JonBenet Ramsey, I wouldn't give a damn"?

How dare you spread lies about me here at this post. I've never wished someone's child dead. That is truly diabolical. It blows the mind that you'd even put me in the same breath as Deborah Frisch. She deserved exactly what she got and then some. And of course Daily Kos wouldn't denounce her. They're all about hate and death as well -- contractors in Fallujah had it coming, and the Jewish state should perish from the earth, etc. -- and you of course endorse it whole hog!

And like Captain Fogg, this post proves you to be someone without a shred of morality, which is exactly what I wrote in the Goldstein post last night. You make it too easy, just too damned easy. There is a universal right in the world, Comrade Repsac3, and you've repeatedly demonstrated that you stand outside of it.

ex DLB said...

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Very nice postings you're doing here, Repsac. Thought you might like some positive vibes to offset the rantings of the lunatic on the fringe.

Sorry to see that Donald's reading comprehension hasn't improved since my return from Elba (he's not the only loon!). He does have a bit of a gutter mouth away from his own blog, no?

I'm not following this latest contretemps. but, I'll join you in denouncing Deborah Frisch's comments because I know that Don really gets off on denunciations. I also caught a previous posting where you stated that you thought the attempts to intimidate the good doctor vis-à-vis his employment were wrong. Absolutely.

Personally, I don't see what anything stupid that anyone writes on the web has to do with their job. Happy to have Don around. Put him right up on a pedestal as an example of a neocon nutcase. May he live long and prosper.

Of course I realize this may put me back on the enemies list full-time. Maybe I should say "may Al Haig roast in Hell" just to make sure. I won't worry too much though because I think that "universal right" thing is just something he pulled out of his ass.

Keep up the good work, comrade!

ex DLB said...

“Black heritage. Whoo hoo! That is teh awesome. I goin' be try'n escpe from de massa's house to be goin' to dis heah black her'tge trail. Y'sm sir!"

By the by, I hate to be forever correcting Don's spelling errors. But, based on my extensive research on the southern Negro dialect consisting of reading Uncle Remus stories and hearing "Camptown Races." I believe "goin" should be replaced with "gwine," as in "gwine to run all day, gwine to run all night..."

Also, I believe that "teh" would have to be considered an anachronism used as it is.

repsac3 said...

Donald, I replied to your attempt at moral relativism before you even wrote it. That the commentary Frisch wrote is more disgusting than yours in no way absolves you, regardless of what you happen to believe.
If you honestly believe that she deserved to have people contact her department chair because they didn't approve of what she posted in her personal/political dealings online, then I don't see how you can argue against people who disapprove of what you post online contacting yours. To suggest that there are different standards for those people you disagree with than there are for yourself makes you an absolute hypocrite.

As I said in the post, neither of you deserve(d) to be attacked at your schools for non-school related behaviors, unless those behaviors are unlawful or dangerous. I'm sorry that you seem to disagree, and prefer to be so morally inconsistent and intellectually dishonest.

If you believe there are distortions or lies in what I've written, you ought to be able to point them out. No where do I make the claim that you've ever wished someone's child dead. What I said was, you made disgusting comments at a post at a leftwing blog. The links are there for anyone who wishes to read the comment and decide for him-or-herself how disgusting it is. As far as making the comparison between your situation and that of professor Frisch, I'm pretty sure it was you who brought up the story and compared it to your own, not I. (Granted, you preferred to paint yourself in the role of her victim, Jeff Goldstein, but it's obvious that you're at least as much the perpetrator, as I showed.)

And while I understand that you want to change the subject, aside the one article we both quoted, nothing written by anyone at the Daily Kos has any relevance here. (But thank you for proving my point about your inability to discern individual authors and their individual posts from the site and it's readers as a whole.) Similarly, this isn't about me. I didn't make the bigoted remarks... I only posted about them. If the shoe was on the other foot, you would've done just the same. (Hell, you're trying to spin the story in your favor as it is...)

I do not worry that much of anyone--and most certainly not anyone whose opinion I value--will buy into your beliefs about my morality, Donald. I've spoken my piece about what I believe to be right, and unlike you, I'm not bending and twisting to protect my friends and crucify my enemies.

Writing disgusting things on the blogs of those with whom we disagree is wrong--no matter who does it.

Contacting the place of employment of a blogger with whom one does not agree--even if they write disgusting things on the blogs of their perceived enemies--is wrong--no matter who does it.

I note that you have so far not permitted my trackback leading to this post appear at the post to which it replies, even though I submitted it several hours ago, and you have made several posts since. Perhaps it was just an oversight, given how adamant you are about the fact that Fogg's comment did appear.

And seeing as how you repeated your comment above at a new American Power post, I hope you'll be gracious enough to permit this rebuttal to appear there, as well. I'll paste it in (along with a comment or two specific to that post) & send it just after posing it here.

(You're not under any obligation to allow my comments on your blog, of course, but it'd be odd not to, given how powerful you imagine yourself to be against we detractors, n'all... I mean, you are the Lion King, right?)

repsac3 said...

Capt Fogg: The thing I hate about moderated blogs--all of 'em--is that you just never know what makes it through the moderation process and what does not... ...only the person who submitted the rejected comment and the blogger who rejected it know for sure, and everyone else is left suspicious...

I understand it for avoiding spam, I guess, but even so, I'd rather see blogs delete after the fact than keep comments from flowing. I believe in trying to take trolls on, as long as they can stay on topic, and having it out with those like Dr Douglas here, who disagree with me. While the discussions seldom lead to resolution, they do create a little bit of enlightenment as to how the participants think and view the world. Moderation, especially when employed to create an illusion of agreement or stifle debate, slows such conversations to the point of killing them. And even when used to protect sensitive eyes from disturbing thoughts--as when Shaw killed off Donald's bigoted comment--moderation makes debate, disagreement, and even simple denounciation that much more difficult.

I guess what I'm saying is that only you and he know what you actually submitted as a comment (or comments) to his blog... In my experience, Donald doesn't reject much, but he certainly does reject some, and given how badly he fucked up, I wouldn't put anything past him.

(Me, I created a blog just for comments submitted to moderated blogs... It may be a little extreme, but I refuse to let somebody else decide whether or not my comments deserve to see the light of day...)

repsac3 said...

DLB, it's always a pleasure to have you visit and comment. (I have a pretty good idea how often you read without commenting, as well...) I don't know what I can add to your fine words, so I think I just won't even try...

Keep me apprised, should you ever get back in the blogging game... There'll always be a virtual writer's desk here for you at AmNi as well, of course... Should I ever be heading north, I'll hit you up for the location of your deranged bakery... (You posted pix of some kinda cross bread that I've never forgotten... Makes me hungry just thinkin' about it...)

Octopüß said...

Repsac3, with respect to my recent post, there is subtext that needs to be highlighted. Please note the date of this comment and, most especially, the reference to “Eloy” in the following comment:

(O)CT(O)PUS ... I see pain and torment in your post. So, on this day I wish safety and goodness to you and yours. Merry Christmas and peace on earth. P.S. You have not banished me. Eloy's waiting to hear from you. [Posted by Donald Douglas to THE SWASH ZONE at 8:32 AM, December 25, 2008]

Point: The date was Christmas Day 2008, and the subtext, "Eloy's waiting to hear from you," refers to the administrator of the school where he teaches.

Some months earlier, I notified DD that he was banned from the Swash Zone. In addition, I notified him of threatening email sent to me by his readers and followers. It seems inciting readers and followers gives DD a vicarious thrill, and he has a palpable sadistic streak (i.e. notice his angry abreaction heaped upon Captain Fogg).

I gave DD clear warning that I would take legal action if the threatening emails did not stop. In addition, I warned him that I would notify his school.

In his above comment, please notice the baiting tactic: “ You have not banished me. Eloy's waiting to hear from you.

Please note: 14 months have elapsed since Christmas Day 2008. Perhaps he thought my threat was an empty one. Since that time, he continues to troll my weblog and harass my colleagues. More to the point, I continue to receive threatening email from suspicious ISP addresses linked to DD.

Fourteen months later, DD is still engaged in predatory behaviors, and then cries “foul" when I finally take him to task. It seems DD refuses to take responsibility for his own actions ... but is quick to project his own antisocial behavior onto others.

Under these circumstances, I believe my actions are more than justified and long overdue.

repsac3 said...

It's not that I don't understand where you're coming from, my eight-armed friend... It's just that I don't agree with your remedy.

To me, it doesn't matter whether Donald dared you, baited you, or even politely invited you to contact his Department Head and/or College President. It also doesn't matter to me that you told him you would.

What does matter to me is that this is not a college matter in any way, shape, or form. Had he threatened to harm one of his students or blow up the school, I'd be sending e-mails and making telephone calls right there with you. Even if he was making bigoted comments about his students or co-workers, I might give it some thought. But posting vile, bigoted, or even threatening things on your blog without permission doesn't merit workplace action in my book. (If you take the threats seriously, I'm all for legal action, involving the police and lawyers, however. And if he's coming to your blog often enough, perhaps you can report him to Google for stalking, or something.)

What a college professor (or a musician, or a cocoa-cola bottler, or a retail manager, etc.) does online has little bearing on what s/he does at his/her job. While I believe that the college ought to be paying attention to what their employees are saying & doing online--just as any "company" should, these days), I don't believe we citizens should be reporting each other to workplace authorities, especially for infractions we can't get legal authorities to do anything about... unless we believe that someone is in danger, anyway. (If you really believed he was a rapist, but didn't have legal proof, I'd support you informing the folks at the college, so that they could weigh your story and take whatever action they deemed necessary.)

While Donald is most certainly a creep, nothing you've described is anything his job can or should do anything about. Being an anti-social online troll isn't--and shouldn't be--something his boss has any control over. Posting inflammatory comments at your blog--or even inciting others to do the same--isn't a crime. It isn't against his college's code of ethics. And it isn't any of his boss' business.

I understand that you see things differently, and believe you are justified in continuing to contact Donald's school. I simply and respectfully disagree.

Until you can explain why the things Donald Douglas does online is the business of LBCC, or explain what you expect them to do about it, I don't see how my feelings and beliefs on the subject are going to change... ...though I'm glad that you value my opinion enough to try to persuade me...

JBW said...

Reppy, your coolness and logical refutation in the face of Don's disjointed howling is an inspiration to me; you must have the patience of Job, my friend. I've rhetorically tangled with Mr. Tubby Haircut more than once but I thought that the lies he spewed about me were much more entertaining than dastardly. You, he genuinely seems to hate more than a little bit passionately.

I also agree with you wholeheartedly about contacting a blogger's place of employment. Whatever dumbassery Don vomits forth online should have no bearing on his livelihood unless it has a direct effect on those he teaches and works with, and the fact that he routinely ignores your protestations of such is indicative of his own hypocrisy as you've rightly pointed out above.

ex DLB: What up, homie? Welcome back from Elba. I'm glad to see that you did not in fact meet your Waterloo (I was afraid that someone might have Hansel and Greteled your deranged ass). Keep baking, amigo.

TRUTH 101 said...

Friends: let us not be angry. This is a time for rejoicing that our prodigal son, exDLB has returned. Even if just for a small moment.


We can't allow ourselves to give Donald more than he deserves. He's at his core using his blog for self pleasure instead of masturbation. In our enlightened day we wouldn't punish those who masturbate. We would make fun of them if they were caught in the act though. Let's make fun of Don and his ejaculation of lies and misleading nonsense. Let's not tell his parents or minister on him though.

ex DLB said...

Thanks everyone for the laurels and hearty handshakes. Nice to see the welcome mat out and the porchlight on.

I'd stop over and say hi and good luck to Don, but he'd likely spit in my eye. Good luck? WTF do you mean by that? I see his crazy isn't getting any better.

I'm watching Repsac, here and at Swash, taking a position against contacting LBCC. And Don treats him like he's a main instigator in the affair. No shades of grey in Don's world, are there?

I have some time before going to St. Helena, so I'll stop by and visit from time to time. Keep up the good fight y'all.

Octopüß said...

repsac3: "Posting inflammatory comments at your blog--or even inciting others to do the same--isn't a crime. It isn't against his college's code of ethics. And it isn't any of his boss' business."

Correction: harassment and stalking is a crime in most states, most certainly in the State of California. I suggest you consider the case of Kathy Sierra, a well-known computer consultant who was a a victim of online predation:

One of the sites posted a photo of a noose next to Sierra's head, she said, with a threat of violence. The other site includes an altered photo of her with inappropriate sexual remarks. That photo appears on Sierra's blog posting where she details the threats.

"I do not want to be part of a culture -- the Blogosphere -- where this is considered acceptable," Sierra noted on her blog. "Most of all, I now fully understand the impact of death threats. It really doesn't make much difference whether the person intends to act on the threat ... it's the threat itself that inflicts the damage. It's the threat that makes you question whether that 'anonymous' person is as disturbed as their comments and pictures suggest."

Robert Scoble, a former technical evangelist at Microsoft and popular blogger, noted that he too has received threats but has just ignored them.

"I am physically ill after reading what happened to Kathy Sierra," Scoble noted in his blog. "The Internet culture is really disgusting. It's this culture of attacking women that has especially go to stop.


In my post of Thursday, February 18, 2010, I asked a a fair and reasonable question: “ … is this how you want your faculty to represent your school?

Apparantly, someone at Long Beach City College agrees. According to DD’s latest post (link): “I'll be meeting with my vice president of human resources on Monday.

repsac3 said...

Octo:

If Donald's harassing/stalking actions constitute a crime, they should be reported to LEGAL authorities, not his boss. (If they are indeed a crime, his boss will find out soon enough, anyway...)

And as far as his meeting with the LBCC VP of Human Resources, I wouldn't celebrate just yet... The fact that he's highlighting it on his blog could well mean that he called the meeting, to paint you (and me, and everyone else on his Nixonian (& alphabetical) "enemies lists") as an (a bunch of) online crank(s) out to get him, or something... (Judging by my hit counters, he's been busily hitting various posts about him on my blogs today, so I expect he'll be posting another of his wild-eyed screeds denouncing us all again very soon, so I expect we'll find out...)

repsac3 said...

I neglected to mention that Donald in fact chose not to allow a copy of my February 20, 2010 11:30 PM comment above to appear at the American Power blog post where he reposted his February 20, 2010 7:27 PM comment. The full comment I attempted to post--including a few things specific to the American Power blog post linked above--appears here: Immoderate Monk: Will Donald Post This, or is the Self-described Lion Really a Lamb?

I guess we know the answer...

repsac3 said...

Quoting myself: "(Judging by my hit counters, he's been busily hitting various posts about him on my blogs today, so I expect he'll be posting another of his wild-eyed screeds denouncing us all again very soon, so I expect we'll find out...)"

And there it is...: American Power: Libel Blogger David Hillman (Swash Zone) Workplace Harassment Fail

I wrote a new post in reply (in the form of another comment to his blog (in reply to the "Workplace Harassment" post) that he will likely refuse to post, as well) above.

As predicted, he's painting his many "enemies" as the assailants, and himself as the poor innocent victim. Typical...